360 is dominating overall . . . [Archive]

Hunter

11-16-2007, 01:28 PM

Supplies!

Now that we have the NPD numbers out...some interesting other facts have come to surface:

* For the month of October, Xbox 360 led in total revenue with $354 million compared to $246 million for Wii and $116 million for PS3.
* Xbox 360 software revenue at retail surpassed that of Wii and PS3 combined. <-- that's pretty crazy there
* For the month of October according to NPD, Xbox 360 software represented 54 percent of total software sales (at $162 million dollars) for this generation, compared to 30 percent for Wii and 16 percent for PS3.
* Xbox 360 was home to seven out of the top 10 rated games through the end of October according to Metacritic.
* Of all 3rd party U.S. software revenue in October, Xbox 360 generated more than double that of the PS3 and Wii. Xbox 360 weighs in at 57 percent with $130 million, compared to Wii with 28 percent and PS3 at 15 percent.
* PS3 and Wii combined had one third party title in the top ten console title list for the month, while Xbox 360 weighed in with 2. Since November, third party partners have seen their titles hit the top ten 29 times for Xbox 360, compared to 2 for PS3 and 2 for Wii.
* In last week's earnings announcement from Electronic Arts, Xbox 360 represented 50 percent ($218 million) of their total revenue during the third quarter. In fact, EA titles on Xbox 360 outperformed those same titles on PlayStation 3, PlayStation 2, PSP, Wii and DS combined.

http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/microsoft-hypes-xbox-360-momentum/18566/ (http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/microsoft-hypes-xbox-360-momentum/18566/)

Newport420

11-16-2007, 02:56 PM

Well this can only mean continued strong support by all parties for the 360. It finally kills last gens trend of developing for the P$2 first and making lazy ports to the xbox. EA and others will make 360 versions priority as thats where their money is coming from. NICE!

Luminous

11-16-2007, 08:31 PM

Impressive.....most impressive.

[smilie=darthvader.:

Frogacuda

11-16-2007, 09:03 PM

Not too surprising. Who buys Wii and PS3 games?

11-17-2007, 02:30 AM

Not too surprising. Who buys Wii and PS3 games?

1. Nintendo fanboys buy Wii games.
2. People who were dumb enough to buy a PS3 are also dumb enough to buy its shitty games. :D

lordsnarf

11-17-2007, 02:44 AM

"In fact, EA titles on Xbox 360 outperformed those same titles on PlayStation 3, PlayStation 2, PSP, Wii and DS combined."
That's my favorite part of those figures. I know it's just one company's sales, but geez.
It really is amazing how well Microsoft is doing this generation. I almost wish I was still working at EB, just so I could see how "happy" all the Sony fanboys that shopped at my store are with their PS3's.

squall_vb

11-17-2007, 03:03 AM

Not too surprising. Who buys Wii and PS3 games?

More people that those who bought Dreamcast games, apparently.

Frogacuda

11-17-2007, 03:18 AM

More people that those who bought Dreamcast games, apparently.

Yeah, not being able to burn copies that will play in an unmodded system does wonders, no?

Although I don't think there have been any non-pack-in Wii or PS3 games that have sold what Sonic Adventure, Crazy Taxi, or NFL2K did in the US, yet. Twilight Princess came close, but the GC version sucked up too much.

11-17-2007, 03:21 AM

It really is amazing how well Microsoft is doing this generation. I almost wish I was still working at EB, just so I could see how "happy" all the Sony fanboys that shopped at my store are with their PS3's.

Sir, I can tell you first hand, it is truly a thing of beauty.

My favorite yet though is this dude on a message board who made a thread about how Super Mario Galaxy didn't sell well in Japan so the PS3 is a better system or something. :lol:

squall_vb

11-17-2007, 03:52 AM

Yeah, not being able to burn copies that will play in an unmodded system does wonders, no?

Although I don't think there have been any non-pack-in Wii or PS3 games that have sold what Sonic Adventure, Crazy Taxi, or NFL2K did in the US, yet. Twilight Princess came close, but the GC version sucked up too much.

In all fairness, you have to lump the Wii and Cube sales of Twilight Princess together to get a clear picture of the title's success. Sure, it's nifty to dissect the situation and view things on a by-the-console level, but if it's sales of the actual game that you're after, they really should count as one and the same.

Aside from a few (arguably unnecessary) control differences, and the fact that the Wii image is inverted because Link is a lefty, the games are one and the same. A similar situation can be seen with Guitar Hero III. Sure, there are some minor differences across the consoles, but it's essentially the same game. If you want to gauge the success of the actual title, they all should be counted.

Furthermore, you're talking about the final, cumulative sales on a console that died years ago compared to a young, healthy console in the first year of its life. That's about as fair as the officiating in Super Bowl XL.
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My favorite yet though is this dude on a message board who made a thread about how Super Mario Galaxy didn't sell well in Japan so the PS3 is a better system or something. :lol:

You can find such idiots in all corners of society. In this hellhole I live in, we call them "Cowboys fans."

squall_vb

11-17-2007, 04:06 AM

NEWS FLASH

As I predicted about a week ago, Atlus has announced an increase in support of the 360. This certainly bodes well for Microsoft, as it further improves the console's credibility in Japan.

Oh, and that massive *thud* you heard was the sound of a dozen Sony executives jumping out of a Tokyo skyscraper.

Frogacuda

11-17-2007, 04:26 AM

In all fairness, you have to lump the Wii and Cube sales of Twilight Princess together to get a clear picture of the title's success.
We're not talking about the title's success, though, we're talking about software sales on Wii and PS3 compared to DC. Whether or not Twilight Princess did well apart from that is no more relevant than the additional 1.4 million copies of Sonic Adventure 2 they moved when they ported it to GC.

Also, how many years do you think those DC games were even in production for? Especially NFL2K which was obsolete in a year. And the DC only lasted 2 years period, so it's not exactly a long time for sales to accumulate.

squall_vb

11-17-2007, 04:32 AM

We're not talking about the title's success, though, we're talking about software sales on Wii and PS3.

Also, how many years do you think those DC games were even in production for?

Very well, but one must reasonably assume that a person who bought TP on Cube would have (sooner or later) purchased the Wii version if no Cube version existed.

However, if you're not willing to take that leap of faith, let's look at it from another angle. You're comparing Sonic Adventure, the Dreamcast flagship title, to Twilight Princess, which isn't an apt comparison. Wait until Galaxy has been out for the duration of the Dreamcast's lifespan, and you will see an incredible difference.

As for the PS3, I can't argue with you there. Has anything besides Resistance broken the million-mark worldwide yet? Nothing comes to mind...

Frogacuda

11-17-2007, 04:35 AM

Hey, I'm not the one who brought up the DC. The fact is, the DC did sell more stand-alone software in its first year than Wii in North America.

squall_vb

11-17-2007, 04:36 AM

Apparently I didn't get all of your first comment in the quote. Quite perplexing.

Anyways, the short life of the Dreamcast proves my point. If enough people were trading their money for Dreamcast games, it would have died of old age and not atrophy. It crashed and burned, plain and simple.

Conversely, if Sony and Nintendo were suffering a similar sales crisis, you would see the familiar scene play out. As they are still very much in business, I'm going to make the wild assumption that both consoles sell enough games that their respective companies see it as worth their while to keep at the hardware business.

If they didn't, well, we would be talking about this over a game of Mario Kart on Xbox Live.

Frogacuda

11-17-2007, 04:37 AM

As for the PS3, I can't argue with you there. Has anything besides Resistance broken the million-mark worldwide yet? Nothing comes to mind...
Motorstorm, maybe. I think that one was big in Europe.

squall_vb

11-17-2007, 04:38 AM

Hey, I'm not the one who brought up the DC. The fact is, the DC did sell more stand-alone software in its first year than Wii in North America.

North America is just a piece of the tasty pie. And "more" doesn't necessarily equate to "enough."
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Motorstorm, maybe. I think that one was big in Europe.

Alright, two titles did well, and the rest just aren't registering. Like I said, I have no defense for Sony. Neither does any other sane and rational person.

Frogacuda

11-17-2007, 04:45 AM

Anyways, the short life of the Dreamcast proves my point. If enough people were trading their money for Dreamcast games, it would have died of old age and not atrophy. It crashed and burned, plain and simple.

Sega crashed and burned, more than the DC. The DC experienced healthy sales, but massive debt brought on by years of fuck ups starting with the Sega CD and leading through the poor marketing of Saturn left Sega unable to support the DC as long as they should have.

Atrophy is certainly a poor choice of words. Games were selling reasonably well until Sega officially bailed. It wasn't about that. By your rationale Saturn was more successful than DC because Sega made it to the finish line, but that isn't how it works.
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North America is just a piece of the tasty pie.

It's the piece this thread is about.

squall_vb

11-17-2007, 04:56 AM

Sega crashed and burned, more than the DC. The DC experienced healthy sales, but massive debt brought on by years of fuck ups starting with the Sega CD and leading through the poor marketing of Saturn left Sega unable to support the DC as long as they should have.

Atrophy is certainly a poor choice of words. Games were selling reasonably well until Sega officially bailed. It wasn't about that. By your rationale Saturn was more successful than DC because Sega made it to the finish line, but that isn't how it works.

Regardless of my drunken early Saturday morning logic, the main point here is success versus failure. Neither Sony nor Nintendo is on the Sega path, and the notion that PS3 and Wii games aren't selling is pure balderdash.

Before I continue, I should note that I'm hesitant to carry on in this particular manner due to the fact that the respective circumstances of the PS3 and Wii are considerably different beasts. One is in far more danger of Segadom than the other.

While the Dreamcast's software sales were relatively "healthy," they paled in comparison to the competition as the current Big 3 entered that hardware generation. They had a kickass launch, and the Dreamcast was performing well better than the horribly over-glorified Saturn, but their star was fading well before they officially said so. The Dreamcast was an afterthought the moment those PS2 kiosks powered up in the big box retailers. Game over.

But where were we again? Oh yeah, about nobody buying Wii or PS3 games. Well, like I said, that simply isn't true. Neither might be enjoying a software windfall a la the Dreamcast; then again, what next-gen competition did the Dreamcast face in its first year? The Wii and PS3 are struggling for sales against a 360 with a year's start and a year's worth of quality titles.

They might not be posting stellar software sales this early on, but apparently they're selling enough to pay to keep the lights on at headquarters.
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It's the piece this thread is about.

Fair enough, North America it is. Second point still stands.

Frogacuda

11-17-2007, 05:02 AM

Regardless of my drunken early Saturday morning logic, the main point here is success versus failure.
That distinction is not one of sales or market share, though, it's one of financial responsibility. Nintendo excels at this. Sega is abominable at it. There is no argument there.

But if this is about sales and not profit margins (which it clearly is, based on the top post), it becomes a different discussion.
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The Dreamcast was an afterthought the moment those PS2 kiosks powered up in the big box retailers. Game over.

That's kinda bullshit. I don't think any PS2 game sold worth shit until MGS2 came out, really, and it was a good 2 or 3 years before the system was considered profitable for Sony.

They might not be posting stellar software sales this early on, but apparently they're selling enough to pay to keep the lights on at headquarters.
Dude, seriously, the PS3 is bleeding money so much faster than DC it's ridiculous. You need to sober up and rethink that one a bit.

squall_vb

11-17-2007, 05:10 AM

That distinction is not one of sales or market share, though, it's one of financial responsibility. Nintendo excels at this. Sega is abominable at it. There is no argument there.

But if this is about sales and not profit margins (which it clearly is, based on the top post), it becomes a different discussion.

And it is a discussion that will find its closure in due time. Has Nintendo ever failed in terms of software sales? Of course not. And in the end, Sony will post decent numbers in the same arena.

The main post, as I read it, is in regards to the 360 kicking an uncommon amount of proverbial ass. On this point there can be no dispute. The numbers don't lie.

My point of contention was with your assertion that nobody is buying Wii and PS3 games. That is simply not true. (Well, it's kinda true in the case of the PS3... I might need to rethink my position on that one. But as far as the Wii is concerned, it hasn't done badly at all. Given its flourishing install base and the promise of more top-shelf titles, the only direction to go is up.)

That's kinda bullshit. I don't think any PS2 game sold worth shit until MGS2 came out, really.

That's partially correct. The PS2 might not have sold a shitload of games right out of the gate, but its presence was enough to steal momentum from Sega. And that's all she wrote.

Dude, seriously, the PS3 is bleeding money so much faster than DC it's ridiculous. You need to sober up and rethink that one a bit.

As I said, the PS3 is a different beast, and I don't like lumping it with the Wii in this conversation for precisely that reason. Sony has no defense on this one, and I am far less confident in a turnaround on their side.

11-17-2007, 06:51 AM

Conversely, if Sony ... were suffering a similar sales crisis, you would see the familiar scene play out.

See: Sony PSP.

If they didn't, well, we would be talking about this over a game of Mario Kart on Xbox Live.

Nintendo has repeatedly stated that they will die before putting games on another console. I kinda wish another company had been so kind...
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As I predicted about a week ago, Atlus has announced an increase in support of the 360. This certainly bodes well for Microsoft, as it further improves the console's credibility in Japan.

Do you have a link/source for this? I would like to cite it elsewhere... where there's 4 or 5 Sony fanboys lingering about clinging to Japanese sales and Mario Galaxy's "lack of success".

Luminous

11-17-2007, 07:35 AM

Honestly the PS3's game sales make sense, nobody is buying the console so why would there be good game sales? As for the Wii, it speaks to their userbase, as in not your traditional "gamers".

lordsnarf

11-17-2007, 12:07 PM

Sir, I can tell you first hand, it is truly a thing of beauty.
I have to ask, JP. How fast did the systems start getting traded in? People in my old store were really fickle and we saw 360 trade-ins like a week or two after launch. I'd imagine the price was a deterrent for anyone unhappy enough to think of getting rid of their PS3's, but still I'm curious.

squall_vb

11-17-2007, 01:21 PM

See: Sony PSP.

Nintendo has repeatedly stated that they will die before putting games on another console. I kinda wish another company had been so kind...
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Do you have a link/source for this? I would like to cite it elsewhere... where there's 4 or 5 Sony fanboys lingering about clinging to Japanese sales and Mario Galaxy's "lack of success".

Agreed on the first two points. As for the third, here ya go:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6183068.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;2

11-17-2007, 01:24 PM

I have to ask, JP. How fast did the systems start getting traded in? People in my old store were really fickle and we saw 360 trade-ins like a week or two after launch. I'd imagine the price was a deterrent for anyone unhappy enough to think of getting rid of their PS3's, but still I'm curious.

Not enough people bought 'em TO trade them in. :lol:

Frogacuda

11-17-2007, 01:33 PM

The main post, as I read it, is in regards to the 360 kicking an uncommon amount of proverbial ass. On this point there can be no dispute. The numbers don't lie.
And yet the 360 is most unprofitable. That's why I said we should avoid just making this a discussion about profit and balancing books.

squall_vb

11-17-2007, 01:44 PM

Honestly the PS3's game sales make sense, nobody is buying the console so why would there be good game sales? As for the Wii, it speaks to their userbase, as in not your traditional "gamers".

Define "traditional gamer."

I've never quite understood what people mean when they use that phrase. The 360 is a first-person shooter mill. The Wii is designed for people that want to play Nintendo games. The PS3 is a Blu-ray player that, oh yeah, happens to play games (in the event that any should ever come out).

I consider myself to be a "traditional gamer," and yet I'm not the biggest FPS fan. I like Nintendo games, but not exclusively so. I could give two shits less about Blu-ray. So which console provides my "traditional" experience?

As an interesting aside, Guitar Hero III sold quite well on Wii. Would you classify it as a "traditional" game, or one that appeals to the "causal" crowd?

That's why I hate the distinction. It requires one to view the subject as black-and-white.
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And yet the 360 is most unprofitable. That's why I said we should avoid just making this a discussion about profit and balancing books.

In the end, that's all that matters. Much as we may want to think otherwise, all these companies are in the business of making money... period. It's not about a passion for making great games.

Be that as it may, in what vein would you prefer to discuss the NPD data?

Frogacuda

11-17-2007, 01:45 PM

squall_vb

11-17-2007, 01:48 PM

I'm sorry but if you think shit like WiiFit is targeted at the usual Nintendo crowd you're a tad naive. Yeah, Nintendo would like to keep their core base, but to say that's who they hope to reach with the Wii would be to not appreciate the difference between Wii and GameCube.

That all depends. WiiFit might not be targeted at the "traditional" crowd, but I'm sure that more than a few "traditional" gamers will pick it up if it proves to be interesting enough. DDR was built on a similar concept; it's simple and fun enough that anyone can get into it and have a good time, but the "traditional" gamers certainly didn't shun it.

To who? Certainly not to me.

Me either. I'm in this for the games. But to stockholders in any of the big corporations... yeah, they could care less if Okami is a masterpiece.

Frogacuda

11-17-2007, 01:57 PM

I don't know that WiiFit is even intended to be any more fun than a richard simmons tape. It's an interactive fitness program and only a pseudo-game, even.

squall_vb

11-17-2007, 02:01 PM

I don't know that WiiFit is even intended to be any more fun than a richard simmons tape. It's an interactive fitness program and only a pseudo-game, even.

If that's all it is, color me uninterested. I'll stick with DDR when I need to undo the damage of my pending holiday binge-fest. It's too bad, really, because the idea could have been used for something really fun.

On the other side of the coin, how about the Wii Zapper? You can't tell me that's not targeted at the "traditional" gamer. I just can't see granny playing Resident Evil and House of the Dead.

Frogacuda

11-17-2007, 02:38 PM

True. I don't see a third party Wii game selling well at all, though.

squall_vb

11-17-2007, 02:42 PM

True. I don't see a third party Wii game selling well at all, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#Wii

Rayman Raving Rabbids and Red Steel already hit the million mark. Guitar Hero III had a strong first week. Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles will do well. Dragon Quest Swords made a killing in Japan, and should perform respectably here.

And I can't say this will happen with absolute certainly, but I really, truly, deep down hope that Okami does well on the Wii.

squall_vb

11-17-2007, 03:00 PM

For what it's worth, the info in that link also indicates that Twilight Princess has already outsold Sonic Adventure by over a million copies. Of course, those are worldwide numbers, so do with them what you will.

Frogacuda

11-17-2007, 03:04 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games#Wii

Rayman Raving Rabbids and Red Steel already hit the million mark. Guitar Hero III had a strong first week. Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles will do well. Dragon Quest Swords made a killing in Japan, and should perform respectably here.

And I can't say this will happen with absolute certainly, but I really, truly, deep down hope that Okami does well on the Wii.

It's been a downward spiral for Wii software sales since launch though. Nothing has sold since. Even first party titles have underperformed.

squall_vb

11-17-2007, 03:07 PM

It's been a downward spiral for Wii software sales since launch though. Nothing has sold since. Even first party titles have underperformed.

There's a distinctive difference between a "downward spiral" and a "lull," and it's far too early to say if we are experiencing the former or the latter. Like I said, Galaxy and GHIII are off to great starts, and there is plenty of goodness coming very soon. Couple that with the fact the the DS and Virtual Console print money, and I don't think Nintendo is sweating anything.

Sony, on the other hand... well, um... yeah...

NeoZeedeater

11-17-2007, 03:10 PM

DDR was built on a similar concept; it's simple and fun enough that anyone can get into it and have a good time, but the "traditional" gamers certainly didn't shun it.
Sure they did. I refuse to believe heterosexual males actually enjoy dancing. ;)

squall_vb

11-17-2007, 03:11 PM

Sure they did. I refuse to believe heterosexual males actually enjoy dancing. ;)

Haha... that's why I do it with the curtains drawn in the privacy of my apartment. Of course, I also dress up as Cher when I play it, but that's neither here nor there... *ahem*

NeoZeedeater

11-17-2007, 03:15 PM

It's okay. I imported Super Princess Peach and enjoyed Final Fantasy X-2.

squall_vb

11-17-2007, 03:17 PM

It's okay. I imported Super Princess Peach and enjoyed Final Fantasy X-2.

We all have our guilty pleasures. I even went out and bought SimCity Societies, despite the negative reviews.

Spike

11-18-2007, 02:37 AM

True. I don't see a third party Wii game selling well at all, though.

Resident Evil 4 overperformed based on what Capcom expected.

Still, how can third party Wii games sell well when all they provide are half-assed experiences. Maybe if the developers actually took the time and invested in a title, they would see some return.

Another problem is the distribution of the games, or the lack of. Look at Zack and Wiki. It should be selling, and alot of gamers want the game, but it's nowhere to be found here in Toronto. It's gotten alot of good reviews in the various newspapers and media up here, yet people cannot simply walk into a store and buy it.

Games will sell on the Wii. But, the devs have to offer something that will get the attention of the people who own the system. They cannot do this by offering token support, such as Konami, or uninspired product like Ubi Soft's Prince of Persia re-release.

Luminous

11-18-2007, 10:46 AM

squall_vb

11-18-2007, 12:55 PM

Squall

That is why I put "traditional gamers" in quotes. It is a very broad term, and you could group a lot of people in there. Frog has made some points for me already, and WiiFit is exactly what I am talking about. Not to mention the Wii commercial with people playing the Wii that are anything but gamers (except for the kids....maybe). The one with the old people bowling and Mom playing with her son.

I will give Nintendo lots of credit, they know who is buying it and who to market it to. Not to mention they are still making quality "traditional" ;) games. I have not played them, but Metroid and Galaxy have received very good reviews from journalists and gamers alike.

Still the software sales numbers backup this idea of people who don't usually buy consoles being a big part of the Wii's userbase.

Good deal. I see where you're coming from on the "traditional gamers" issue. And knowing is half the battle.

Where I take issue is with your assertion that the Wii isn't pushing software. Sure, a good number of people who don't usually buy consoles picked up a Wii. They will be plenty thrilled with WiiFit and other such casual experiences, and good for them. But the Wii certainly has a "traditional" following, and they are buying games.

As was stated earlier, Twilight Princess was a great success. And while the Wii doesn't have the 360's installed user base in North America, the Wii version of Guitar Hero III sold about two-thirds of the 360 version. That's certainly not something to scoff at. Galaxy is off to a great start, and will certainly have phenomenal numbers when it's all said and done. Umbrella Chronicles is a guaranteed win, and if Capcom could get enough copies in circulation, Zack and Wiki would be a hit.

More third parties are calling an audible and devoting more resources to the development of Wii titles. While there will be a good amount of shovelware and causal fare, you can bet that we're going to see some incredible "traditional" games as well over the next year. No More Heroes already has me shaking with anticipation. And once Squeenix releases more Wii titles, game over. (Remember that Dragon Quest IX is a DS title. I wouldn't be shocked to see DQX on its big brother...)

In short, the Wii has no problem catering to the "traditional" crowd. Software sales are healthy, and will only increase as the console gains momentum. It will never have the "uber-hardcore" Halo 3 following that the 360 has, and that's fine. "Traditional gamers" like myself can only handle so many first-person shooters, anyways.

Advocate

11-18-2007, 01:22 PM

Being as I have not been online for awhile ... all this stuff is funny.

GO MS ... GO!

Melf

11-18-2007, 10:26 PM

Couple that with the fact the the DS and Virtual Console print money, and I don't think Nintendo is sweating anything.

The problem is that only Nintendo has a sure thing. Developers are still wary of developing on the Wii due to how 3rd party games have fared compared to Nintendo's titles, and you can bet that Mario Galaxy crushing every other release on the console this Christmas isn't going to help.

GH 3 selling well is a good thing, despite the fact that it has mono sound.

Still, how can third party Wii games sell well when all they provide are half-assed experiences. Maybe if the developers actually took the time and invested in a title, they would see some return.

Games will sell on the Wii. But, the devs have to offer something that will get the attention of the people who own the system. They cannot do this by offering token support, such as Konami, or uninspired product like Ubi Soft's Prince of Persia re-release.

This still perplexes me. When the Wii was released, everyone said:

- developers were surprised by its success
- development of big titles had finally started but would take a while
- most companies were going to shift focus to the Wii

Here we are, a year after the Wii's launch, and I'm still waiting for the major 3rd party titles. It's a shame when the best ones released this holiday season are a guitar game available on every console under the Sun and an adventure game that can't be found anywhere. What's going on?

squall_vb

11-18-2007, 10:48 PM

In past generations, third parties haven't had a hard time competing against Nintendo software. The problem is that the N64/Cube era is full of third-party shit titles, as all the good stuff moved to Sony hardware. There's an audience for quality third-party titles, and that audience grows with every Wii sold.

Naturally, it's going to take some time to see the results of development studies shuffling their resources. Good games take time, and while '08 might bring some good stuff our way, I think '09 is really going to be the breakout year in terms of quality third-party games on Wii.

In the meantime, I'll have to get my fix on the 360. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you.)