Thunderforce VI

[Advocate]

Yes apparently the report from Famitsu is '''Thunderforce VI made by Sega. Its coming to the PS2.



Here are Famitsu's 4 EXCLUSIVE DS RPGs! http://www.ga-forum.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

1. Chocobo Tales 2 (what? this isn't even a RPG!) - S-E

2. Cid and Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon DS+ (yay!) - S-E

3. Spectrobes (ROFLMAO) - Disney

4. Tongariboushi and the 365 days of Magic (lol Animal Crossing clone?) - Konami


Other news:

CT DS: Exclusive interview with the sound director Mitsuda

ToH: Look at all this AWESOME CG from Shirogumi LOLZ

Sega loves us all:

Garnet Chronicle - PSP - 10/23
Thunderforce VI - PS2 - 10/30

Sony loves us too:

Patapon 2
Locoroco 2

Koei's new DS game: Saihai no Yukue - Fall 2008

[jp]

Great... Sega didn't have enough fun running its own franchises into the ground, now it has to help run TF into the ground too.


The people that made the old Tecno Soft games great haven't been affiliated with TS since before TFV, so this will undoubtedly suck and be just another tarnish on a once great franchise just like TFV was.

Oh, and one more thing:
FUCK SEGA!

[Advocate]

wrong.

Tecnosoft's website is back up.

http://www.tecnosoft.com/

Sega publishes.

[jp]

The people that made the old Tecno Soft games great haven't been affiliated with TS since before TFV, so this will undoubtedly suck and be just another tarnish on a once great franchise just like TFV was.


I say fuck Sega for trying to whore out more old school classics.

This isn't the same Tecno Soft that made awesome shmups.

See here:
http://www.sestren.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119672&highlight=Tecno+Soft

[jp]

Since Advocate doesn't believe me and thinks that Tecno Soft might still be relevant in its current state, lets take at what they did prior to everyone leaving to make CAProductions and what all happened afterwards.

Tecno Soft prior to everyone leaving to form CAProductions:

What Tecno Soft did Pre-CAProductions:
Thunder Force (Sharp X1) - Decent start I guess...
Thunder Force II (X68000, Genesis) - Hori levels are cool...
Herzog (X68000 I think) - Decent star...
Herzog Zwei (X68000, Genesis) - Classic.
Elemental Master (Genesis) - Damn good.
Thunder Force III (Genesis) - CLassic!
Thunder Force IV (Genesis) - Classic!
Dragon's Fury (Genesis) - Classic!
Hyper Duel (Arcade) - Barely a classic. Once remade, a classic!

Now, after Hyper Duel a lot of people left to form CAProductions. Lets see how THEY did.
Nekketsu Oyako (Playstation, Saturn) - Fucking horrible.
Fantastic Pinball (Saturn, Playstation(?)) - Decent I guess.
Reverthion (Playstation) - Fucking horrible.
Hyper Reverthion (Saturn) - Remade of the above, still fucking horrible.
Steeldom (Saturn) - Not good at all.
Thunder Force V (Saturn, PS) - Decent, but nowhere near classic.

They also made a bunch of crappy RPGs and Gardening sims. Now, Blast Wind DID come out in '97, but I REALLY do not believe that was developed after CAProductions. I REALLY cannot wrap my mind around that. I still think it was originally made for arcades, cancelled, and then ported to the Saturn years later.

Now, lets look at what CAProductions made:
Bulk Slash (Saturn) - Fucking awesome classic.
Sapphire (PC-Engine CD) - Damn solid little shmup.
Hagane (SNES) - Damn good game.
Zenki (SFC) - Fairly solid as well.

And then they... kinda tapered off and started making party games or something.

But the fact remainds, its fairly OBVIOUS, that the good people from Tecno Soft left. And I doubt they ditched Hudson since then.

[Frogacuda]

Apparently the new game is being developed by Tez Okano (aka Zolger Satoru), a very awesome dude from Hitmaker who also directed Astro Boy GBA with Treasure. And it is a 2D shmup (w/ 3D graphics).

Cautiously optimistic now. This isn't being given to a third rate talent.

[jp]

So this actually ISN'T even being made by Tecno Soft?


:rofl:

OK, whatever. :rolleyes:

[Frogacuda]

You know what else isn't made by TecnoSoft? Radiant Silvergun.

Just be happy we're getting a new Okano game. It doesn't have to be the perfect heir to Thunderforce as long as it's good in its own right.

[jp]

If its called Thunder Force and it isn't made by old school Tecno Soft people then it is as worthless as Panzer Dragoon Orta to me.

[Frogacuda]

Eh, if Border Down was called Metal Black 2 would you have hated it?

I mean I feel you that game series shouldn't be handed off to any random person, but if the team is talented they can make something worthwhile anyway. Legitimacy and quality are separate issues.

Like Gradius V. It wasn't made by anyone affilliated with the series, and yeah it wasn't all that faithful, but it was actually better.

[jp]

Eh, if Border Down was called Metal Black 2 would you have hated it?

I never felt that strongly about Metal Black. I liked it alright, but I was never a hardcore fan of it. You seem to forget that I also look down on Thunder Force V and that I am a super hardcore fan of the GOOD stuff Tecno Soft made.


I mean I feel you that game series shouldn't be handed off to any random person, but if the team is talented they can make something worthwhile anyway. Legitimacy and quality are separate issues.

I disagree.
Take for instance Panzer Dragoon Orta. Decent enough game and pretty, but it was totally lacking the magic of Panzer Dragoon and Panzer Dragoon II Zwei. Why? Because it was just a copycat. It wasn't the geniuses behind the Panzer Dragoon series making a new entry, it was just some team thrown together to make a quick buck trying to recapture ideas that Yukio Futatsugi and Tomohiro Kondo had already had. Thats why it doesn't have the same magic.

Thunder Force V was totally missing the magic of TFIII/TFIV. Totally and completely. But it did go off on its own direction. Here, I can almost guarantee you this is going to be some lesser clone of TFIV, and is totally not going to have the same magic behind it. Maybe if they had outsourced it to CAProductions, but having Sega make it? Fuck no.


Like Gradius V. It wasn't made by anyone affilliated with the series, and yeah it wasn't all that faithful, but it was actually better.

Um... go ask some super hardcore Gradius fans about Gradius V. :lol: Or just explore the pages and pages of debate over it at shmups.com. :lol:

[Frogacuda]

Take for instance Panzer Dragoon Orta.
We could take for instance a lot of games and you'd probably be right for 7 out of 10 examples out there, but there are enough exceptions not to write the idea off entirely.

I'm not even sure Thunder Force IV has the same staff as III honestly.


Thunder Force V was totally missing the magic of TFIII/TFIV. Totally and completely.
I agree. You know who else agrees? The guy making 6. He says he wants to make it more like Lightening Force.

But yeah, it'd be nice if it had the same magic, but I'll settle for any kind of magic at this point. Shit, I don't care if this is a platformer if it's a great platformer.


Um... go ask some super hardcore Gradius fans about Gradius V. :lol: Or just explore the pages and pages of debate over it at shmups.com. :lol:
Why should I give a fuck what they think when I own the game and can form my own opinions?

[jp]

We could take for instance a lot of games and you'd probably be right for 7 out of 10 examples out there, but there are enough exceptions not to write the idea off entirely.

I'm not even sure Thunder Force IV has the same staff as III honestly.

Uh... yeah, the TFIII people made TFIV.



I agree. You know who else agrees? The guy making 6. He says he wants to make it more like Lightening Force.

But yeah, it'd be nice if it had the same magic, but I'll settle for any kind of magic at this point. Shit, I don't care if this is a platformer if it's a great platformer.


Here, I can almost guarantee you this is going to be some lesser clone of TFIV, and is totally not going to have the same magic behind it. Maybe if they had outsourced it to CAProductions, but having Sega make it? Fuck no.



Why should I give a fuck what they think when I own the game and can form my own opinions?

Because I'm talking about the opinion from the view of someone who is really into the series. Your atypical super Gradius fan isn't too fond of GV since it deviates too much from the series.

[Advocate]

I'll keep posting about Thunderforce news to keep JP complaining. :)

http://www.the-nextlevel.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=38059&stc=1&d=1215592680

[Frogacuda]

Because I'm talking about the opinion from the view of someone who is really into the series. Your atypical super Gradius fan isn't too fond of GV since it deviates too much from the series.
Right, and they're the same people who bitch about Green Day "selling out" after their first album and shit. I understand what purism is, but really, it's better to judge something on its own merits.

[jp]

Oh, look, screenshots.


It looks just like a cheap 3D clone of TFIV.

Oh... wow... I called it. :rolleyes:

[Frogacuda]

So, the article also says that while the team isn't the original TF team, they ARE a team known for shooters.... Hmm...

Speculation time: Zolger Satoru has experience working with outside devs, and has worked twice with Treasure... I wonder if they and/or G.rev could be involved...

Sorry, jp, but this one isn't smelling like a hack-job to me. I'll give you good odds it comes out better than TF5 at the very least.

[jp]

Its already a hack job. All he's doing is reusing a bunch of the old bosses from the older games. And the God awful Free Range weapon is back. :lol:

Its not even going to be as original as TFV. :lol:

[Moriya]

Dont hold back jp. Tell us how you really feel.

[NeoZeedeater]

In general I don't like the idea of series' being given to new people either but it happens to almost every series that's around for more than a decade. I think this one actually has some potential. Thunder Force V was already a step down from III and IV anyway to me.

And I like Gradius Gaiden more than Gradius V myself. I do think the entire series is a bit overrated among shooter fans, though.

[jp]

Thunder Force V was already a step down from III and IV anyway to me.

And I like Gradius Gaiden more than Gradius V myself. I do think the entire series is a bit overrated among shooter fans, though.

I agree. Well, I don't know if Gradius Gaiden is better than Gradius V, but I know most hardcore Gradius fans think of it more highly since it plays more like a Gradius game. But I do think Gradius is insanely overrated (though I dig Graduis II Gofer alright).


In so far as Frog's inevitable "ZOMG TREASURE AND/OR G.REV ARE MAKING THIS!!!!!"

Its like this man:
Treasure != Tecno Soft
G.Rev != Tecno Soft
Sega != Tecno Soft

I liked the Thunder Force games because they were made by Tecno Soft, not because they were called Thunder Force. No matter what, TFVI will not be a true sequel to TFIII/TFIV. At worst, it'll be something completely different that feels nothing like Tecno Soft's greatness, at best it'll be a cheap imitation.

[Frogacuda]

I liked the Thunder Force games because they were made by Tecno SoftReally? It was the names in the credits and not because they were good games?

If the game is good, its good. If it isn't true to the series that might be disappointing on a certain level, but it will never be a rational reason to dismiss the game on its own merits.

It's like the whole Toejam and Earl 2 thing (which, last I checked, you liked). It wasn't in the style of the original at ALL and it was rejected by purists, but it's a great fucking game for what it is.
____________
[post updated]
Shit, the Thunder Force series isn't even true to itself! TF1 was radically different from TF2, and TF3 was a huge change from TF2, so why are you being protective of this like anything that isn't exactly the same feel is bad?

Again, it doesn't matter if this is a "true" sequel. It only matters that it is a good game.

[Advocate]

Same thing on movies and sports teams. Hell even rap acts and there producers.

Its very snobbish. I know ... I am one too. But I don't discredit anything before I see a trailer, gameplay footage, or a preseason game.

[jp]

Really? It was the names in the credits and not because they were good games?

Who made the games Frog? Hm? Do you not understand that there is talent behind those flashing lights on the screen? People with ideas who sit around trying to come up with great games? Tecno Soft had a certain style of gameplay that evolved as they grew, and thats why I loved TFIII/IV/AC/Hyper Duel/Elemental Master/Blast Wind/etc.


If the game is good, its good. If it isn't true to the series that might be disappointing on a certain level, but it will never be a rational reason to dismiss the game on its own merits.

I disagree totally. And I know you will never be able to understand this, but the absolute BEST example for me is Panzer Dragoon Orta. By its own merits its a decent enough game. Pretty, good music, fairly good rail-shooting gameplay. But since its called "Panzer Dragoon", one must hold it up to the other two console rail-shooters bearing the same name, and suddenly PDOrta is obviously a cheap imitation of the genius that was Team Andromeda.

Its the PEOPLE who make the games that make the games good. It was the PEOPLE originally in Tecno Soft that made Thunder Force good. Their ideas and style of developement is what makes me love the Tecno Soft of old so much.


It's like the whole Toejam and Earl 2 thing (which, last I checked, you liked). It wasn't in the style of the original at ALL and it was rejected by purists, but it's a great fucking game for what it is.
____________
[post updated]
Shit, the Thunder Force series isn't even true to itself! TF1 was radically different from TF2, and TF3 was a huge change from TF2, so why are you being protective of this like anything that isn't exactly the same feel is bad?

And you're totally missing the point Frog. Like, oh my God you're missing it so bad its almost funny.

The same people who made TJ&E made TJ&E2 as well as TJ&E3. They played different, but the same style was there. Playing any of them and I knew it was those guys.

Same goes for Tecno Soft. None of their games are that similar, but thats what made them great. It was the evolution of ideas and new stuff from this team of shmupping geniuses that made the series so good. And yeah, it went stale at V, but at least V wasn't a graphical remake.

The original Thunder Force was just a start. Thunder Force II was solid, and a lot of promise could be seen with the horizontal levels. Thunder Force III was genius, and took the series to a whole new level. TFIV did the exact same thing, taking the series even farther.

It was Tecno Soft's STYLE that I loved. And that will NOT be present in TFVI. Because TFVI will not be a Tecno Soft style evolution of the series no matter what. Because Tecno Soft isn't making it.

[Advocate]

I like the Eagles and over the course of a generation or two the GM moves on. If I am a fan of the team. Sometimes the people need to move on.

I loved Snoop Dogg back in the Death Row days. He left and went to Master P's label. Then he left and hooked up with The Neptunes. Each time he evolved.

So, what's your point? Sometimes the series needs to move on from the original company that made it.

Example: Rainbow Six 3 Black Arrow to RS3: Lockdown. Remember that? Montreal let I think Ubisoft Quebec help with Lockdown and Critical Hour. It sucked. The fans asked for Montreal again ... and they came back and made Vegas. But Vegas 2 was a pile of shat. Its time for them to move on and a new team to make the game. It got stagnant. The problems of Vegas are still ever present (so I heard.).

[jp]

Advocate, have you ever even seen a Tecno Soft game?



Look, I've been a hardcore fan of Tecno Soft's earlier stuff for a long time. A long time. I often put them up with Team Andromeda as my favorite team ever. In the old days, they had a certain style, a certain way of evolving their games and making them better and better each time that few other developers could ever hope pull off. I can play TFII, TFIII, TFIV, Blast Wind, Hyper Duel, Herzog Zwei, and Dragon's Fury and KNOW, without a shadow of a doubt even if I had never played the game prior or had even heard of it, that I'm playing a classic Tecno Soft game.

Thunder Force V was a step back because the team that made Tecno Soft so great had left. This is why Bulk Slash is a damn near classic and Sapphire is a legend amongst PC-Engine fans.

If classic Tecno Soft is not involved, then its worthless. Just like a Yukio Futatsugi/Tomohiro Kondo-less Panzer Dragoon game.

[Frogacuda]

Who made the games Frog? Hm? Do you not understand that there is talent behind those flashing lights on the screen? People with ideas who sit around trying to come up with great games?
Yup, and I understand this game seems to have some talent behind it to, and a director that has made some great games of his own. So as a Zolger Satoru fan, I look forward to this, regardless of what name it has.


I disagree totally. And I know you will never be able to understand this, but the absolute BEST example for me is Panzer Dragoon Orta. By its own merits its a decent enough game. Pretty, good music, fairly good rail-shooting gameplay. But since its called "Panzer Dragoon", one must hold it up to the other two console rail-shooters bearing the same name, and suddenly PDOrta is obviously a cheap imitation of the genius that was Team Andromeda.

I agree that MOST of the time when you change the team it's not going to be good, and PDOrta is a fine example. I understand it. What I don't understand is why you think it's universalizable. There are enough exceptions. Look at Tomb Raider.

If Technosoft's shmups were literally the only games you ever connected with, I'd understand, but I know that's not the case. You love Radiant Silvergun, and if the PEOPLE (in all caps) behind that are behind this, it would be a compelling reason to believe you might connect with this game, even if it's on a different level than the old TF games.

[jp]

Well... honestly, RS is the only shmup by Treasure I ever did connect with. Outside of that, the only shmups I ever connected with (for reals, I mean, I passively enjoy Batsugun and some various stuff) pretty much was the classic Tecno Soft stuff.

[Frogacuda]

I hope Techno Soft reforms and makes a new Gradius game that plays exactly like Thunder Force, just to watch your head explode.

[jp]

I hope Techno Soft reforms and makes a new Gradius game that plays exactly like Thunder Force, just to watch your head explode.


The correct equation for my head exploding is as follows:

CAProductions reforms Tecno Soft alongside the resurrected Team Andromeda in its entirety, and under the guidance of Hideo Kojima they make an Atlus style RPG with Psikyo style shooting bits.


Then sir, I would sell all my gaming stuff and leave the medium all together.

Edit:
I don't know if the system its on would matter. On one hand, I would hate to see Futatsugi/Tecno Soft working on a Sony console. On the other hand, there's no doubt in my mind I would hate the game with an unrivaled passion (since, to me, Atlus, Psikyo, and Hideo Kojima are the three worst things in all of gaming).

[Frogacuda]

The irony I was going for was that they would make a game you would love if not for the name.

[Advocate]

http://thunderforce.sega.jp/

closer screen shots.

http://www.famitsu.com/game/coming/1216397_1407.html

[jp]

:lol:

Just like I called it, looks just like a cheap imitation, just like Gunstar Super Heroes was. :lol:

Only problem is its a cheap imitation that borrows far too heavily from TFV, which wasn't that great.

[Specineff]

Shun the non-believer! SHUUUUUUNNN!

[Advocate]

We better take him to candy mountain.

[Advocate]

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20080714/tf02.jpg
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20080714/tf03.jpg
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20080714/tf04.jpg
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20080714/tf05.jpg
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20080714/tf06.jpg
http://the-magicbox.com/0807/thunder61.jpg
http://the-magicbox.com/0807/thunder62.jpg
http://the-magicbox.com/0807/thunder63.jpg
http://the-magicbox.com/0807/thunder64.jpg

[jp]

So this isn't Thunder Force VI. This is Thunder Force III/IV/V Remix Edition. :lol: Now with horrible 3D graphics (actually, looks like they're taking all the bad from Thunder Force V for this game, :lol:).

[Specineff]

Sega releases new games, you complain they aren't what they used to be.

Sega releases old games via remakes or new versions, you complain that they are only whoring out their old franchises and that don't measure up to the originals.

JP, what kind of game should Sega release so you're happy? (I don't mean this in a confrontational way, but jeez man, there is just no pleasing you.)

[jp]

Sega releases new games, you complain they aren't what they used to be.

Sega releases old games via remakes or new versions, you complain that they are only whoring out their old franchises and that don't measure up to the originals.

JP, what kind of game should Sega release so you're happy? (I don't mean this in a confrontational way, but jeez man, there is just no pleasing you.)


Sega doesn't have to worry about me anymore. :p

But the correct answer would have been:
Make new games that were actually good.
Like they did for like, a year or two after going 3rd party. Then it just all fell apart.

[Advocate]

Not like Sega really is effected by you selling their wares though.

[jp]

Not like Sega really is effected by you selling their wares though.


:o

No really!? I had no clue!


Z0MG ADVOCATE! I won't sell them now. :o Thank you for pointing that out! :o Your grasp of the obvious is legendary! :happyhappy:

[Advocate]

wow awesome.

way to be a jerk.

[jp]

wow awesome.

way to be a jerk.

You started it. :p

[Advocate]

I wasn't being a jerk.

[jp]

Oh lighten up. Geez. :redface:


Go read Final Crisis: Rogues Revenge and go post in the comic thread. :p

[Advocate]

I really liked Young Liars and the Joker's Asylum.

[jp]

No Requiem or Rogues' Revenge!?

[Advocate]

There is no requiem, when the story is not done yet.

[jp]

There is no requiem, when the story is not done yet.

Final Crisis: Requiem...


Damn good issue.

[Advocate]

ta8cTQ5mz1c

[Frogacuda]

Looks like they're doing what they have to with this one. The graphics certainly don't impress, but everything looks like a solid step up from IV. And the free range seems to be nerfed a bit, which is badly needed.

[jp]

Looks like they're doing what they have to with this one. The graphics certainly don't impress, but everything looks like a solid step up from IV. And the free range seems to be nerfed a bit, which is badly needed.

A solid step up from IV?


:rofl:


No. I MIGHT would give you TFV since it sucked anyways, but IV? Oh hell no. As long as the shitty scoring system and Free Range of TFV are in a TF game, there's no way it can touch TFIV or TFIII.

Music isn't even being done by Hyakutaro Tsukumo or Yunker Mutai, and is a fucking insult to Tecno Soft's soundtracks of the past.

Its like some abomination butchery of TFIII and TFV, where they took the worst aspects of each, added some bizarre camera work, took out the great music, and called it a sequel.

[Moriya]

I think TFVI will be the second greatest shmup ever. Topping the likes of Batsugun Special, Radiant Silvergun and Pulstar.

Planet Joker, of course, remains #1. I think JP will agree

[jp]

I think TFVI will be the second greatest shmup ever. Topping the likes of Batsugun Special, Radiant Silvergun and Pulstar.

Planet Joker, of course, remains #1. I think JP will agree

:goodpost:


If we had a cool points system here, I would so give you, 20 for that. Given the camera angle goofiness, comparing this nonsense to Planet Joker is about spot on.

Fuckin' doujin lookin' shitty ass nonsense... :redface: And how do you NOT get Hyakutaro Tsukumo to do the soundtrack? The dude made his own company so he could PUT OUT the music from his Tecno Soft days.

So stupid... :disgust:

[Frogacuda]

If we had a cool points system here, I would so give you, 20 for that. Given the camera angle goofiness, comparing this nonsense to Planet Joker is about spot on.
Or, you know... Einhander.


Fuckin' doujin lookin' shitty ass nonsense... :redface: And how do you NOT get Hyakutaro Tsukumo to do the soundtrack? The dude made his own company so he could PUT OUT the music from his Tecno Soft days.
With you on the music thing. The graphics are hardly amazing, but go play Broken Thunder before you call this "doujin-looking."