You guys are killin me

[KANG the Crybaby]

I've been at work since 8am and I have nothing much to read here, please, someone post some gaming goodness for me. :cool:

[YankeeH8er]

Sorry I am at work also and I am kind of busy, plus things are a bit slow this week. Flower is coming out on the 12th though. That is kind of big news.

[Hunter]

Ill be approving new feeds soon, maybe you'll find something interesting there.

[Frogacuda]

I slept until 4PM.

[Bruhaha69]

I'm lazy

[jp]

Ill be approving new feeds soon, maybe you'll find something interesting there.

Note:
I just saw that part of the Admin controls like, 3 days ago. :lol:

I'll try to help out when I can. ;)

[The Skies]

I slept until 4PM.

Same, w00t!

[jp]

Now you guys are killing ME. I'm trapped in my programming class, and. it. is. MISERY!!!!!!!

[KANG the Crybaby]

Go to amazon and pre order killzone and buy a PS3 jp

[DarthArcturus]

Go to amazon and pre order killzone and buy a PS3 jp
:lol:

Also gimme Souky on saturn

[Hunter]

Note:
I just saw that part of the Admin controls like, 3 days ago. :lol:

I'll try to help out when I can. ;)


Heh, I thought you were doing it. Either that, or Im approving stuff in my sleep lol.

But yeah, just sort through the stuff and approve stuff you think might interest peeps. Delete the rest. Although, people seem to mostly be ignoring it now, even though I personally see quite a few good things in there. If you see anyone reply, move it to an active forum.

[jp]

Go to amazon and pre order killzone and buy a PS3 jp

No. No more FPSs for me. And no PS3 ever.


Darth,

One day I'll send you Souky, one day.

[Conjoshus]

And no PS3 ever.


He said the same about the PS1 and PS2 as well guys :)

We'll see if chicky makes him get a PS3 too :)

[YankeeH8er]

I would quit gaming if I had to stop playing FPS. They are the only genre that matters any more. They are the ones pushing the tech and also pushing gaming forward.

[Bruhaha69]

If all we got were FPS', I would quit gaming. So I guess your heaven would be my gaming hell. There's nothing wrong with a good FPS, but to say that's the only genre that matters anymore......I dunno man, that sounds pretty ridiculous to me. FPS' are WAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY overdone these days and usually do not offer ANYTHING new to gaming or even their own genre.

Fuck....one of the most unique uses of the FP view was Mirror's Edge and you fuckin hated the game. What kind of FPS do you feel is pushing gaming forward if the ones that break the mold suck ass?

[jp]

He said the same about the PS1 and PS2 as well guys :)

We'll see if chicky makes him get a PS3 too :)

:####:


I doubt she will though. She only fucked with the Playstations because of Final Fantasy, and now that thats on the 360, as well as Mistwalker, we can just be happy with that. :)

[KANG the Crybaby]

I would quit gaming if I had to stop playing FPS. They are the only genre that matters any more. They are the ones pushing the tech and also pushing gaming forward.

So true. Every other genre has become "wii" level bullshit. A couple fighting games still push things, virtua fighter, street fighter 4, tekken 6, but besides those titles and FPS, everything else is dumbed down bullshit.

[Bruhaha69]

Man.....whatever video game enhancing drug you guys are on, you need to share it.

[KANG the Crybaby]

Think about it. Metal Gear Solid 4, Fallout 3, Gears 2, Halo 3, Killzone 2. These are hands down the best looking games of this generation, they have the best budget of any game this generation, and are all considered GOTY material. FPS style games is hands down the premier gaming genre right now.

[Bruhaha69]

MGS4 and Gears 2 aren't FPS'. Fallout 3 plays just like an FPS, but can be played in 3rd. Really, only Halo 3 and Killzone 2 are true FPS games.

Anyway, I don't consider Halo 3 or Gears 2 game of the year in any time. I liked both games but neither were so good that they trumped all other games in their released years.

I haven't played MGS4, but I'm sure I'd like it...haven't played Fallout 3, either, pretty sure I wouldn't really like it too much. Killzone 2 I won't be able to play very soon, so no comment on that.

[DarthArcturus]

fuck FPS.I like a good one but honestly video gaming has so much more to offer than that

[jp]

fuck FPS.I like a good one but honestly video gaming has so much more to offer than that

"walk forward... shoot guy... wait for life to recharge... walk forward... shoot guy... wait for life to recharge.... "


It got old for me in 2007. Especially since there's virtually no challenge to those games. Hell, I imagine a small child could even beat a Call of Duty on Veteran. Its not like getting all S Ranks in some action game or 1CCing a shmup.

[KANG the Crybaby]

MGS4 and Gears 2 aren't FPS'. Fallout 3 plays just like an FPS, but can be played in 3rd. Really, only Halo 3 and Killzone 2 are true FPS games.

Anyway, I don't consider Halo 3 or Gears 2 game of the year in any time. I liked both games but neither were so good that they trumped all other games in their released years.

I haven't played MGS4, but I'm sure I'd like it...haven't played Fallout 3, either, pretty sure I wouldn't really like it too much. Killzone 2 I won't be able to play very soon, so no comment on that.

I said "FPS style" games. I know they are 3rd person, but they would still be in the same category of a big budget FPS/Tactical game.

[Bruhaha69]

I don't consider them FPS style either, since the main component in FPS is the forced first person perspective.

[YankeeH8er]

What? Gears and MGS 4 to a lesser degree are both big budget shooters. Hell Kojima had westerners come in and revamp the control scheme and change up the gameplay so that you can shoot your way through all most the whole game. Those games are what I am talking about, along with all the other epic shooters we have gotten. The only genre pushing forward tech this gen is shooters. All the best graphics from a technical perspective are FPS/TPS. There are still a few exceptions, but for the most part all your top devs are making shooters now, it is where the money is.

[jp]

All the best graphics from a technical perspective are FPS/TPS.

While it is cartoony, Tales of Vesperia says "hi".


Seriously, its the first time a game actually looks as good as a GOOD animated film.

[YankeeH8er]

I never played that, but that is still just a question of art style, lots of games have great art styles, but no way is it a tech heavy game. I think that RPG's, which I love, have been a bit of a disappointment for me this gen. Shooters are all about online now, Halo 3 added scoring to co-op, Gears added this great horde mode so that 5 people could play together in co-op, and I have not seen any RPG's embracing online, same thing with action games. NGII and DMC4 easily could have been done on the original XBOX except for their graphics, and the graphics were a big disappointment for both games. Online is where gaming is at now, and it sucks that almost none of the other genres are getting on board.

[Bruhaha69]

The same can be said about the first and third person games that you love. They could be done on last gen systems except for their graphics. What's the difference?

Also, how were their (NGII and DMC4) graphics big disappointments? Aside from the fact that both ran at 60 fps and had beautiful high rez textures shooting out of their asses (NG had some real slowdown issues, I know), as well as excellent character animation, they also had great art direction, which many games are lacking (especially FPS' since they're a dime a dozen and many rely on the same engine to great repetitive effect)......so what were the downsides and disappointments in those graphics?

I know we disagree on this, but online gaming is not needed in EVERY game. I'm glad other genre's aren't getting on board because a great game should stand on it's own merits and not rely on constantly regurgitated online modes. How many times do we need to play the same maps and the same game modes on FPS'? Slayer, capture the flag, plant the bomb....it's all the same. That's not moving gaming forward, man, it's giving the masses (the asses) what they want. Yeah, it sells, but it's keeping the progression of gaming at a steady moving nowhere pace.

Why would an RPG or an actiona dventure/hack n slash game need online aspects? Is the game fun for one? That's all it needs. If they wanna add some cool multiplayer that actually makes sense, I have no issue, but to act like it needs them is ridiculous.

In the 16-bit days, did you only play a game like Contra, Super Mario or Streets of Rage when your friends were over or were you able to enjoy the games by yourself? I just don't understand the need to have MP in every game.

[jp]

Iand I have not seen any RPG's embracing online,

Those are called MMORPGs, and to wish for RPGs as they are now to transform into that is ludicrous.

[YankeeH8er]

I hate MMo's and would not want that at all. What I want is for some RPG dev to come up with something new and unique involving online. How about the battle arena from Oblivion but where you can take your character online and battle of peoples characters. I am sure that there are lots of things that could be done to bring online modes to action games or RPG's of platformers or lots of other last gen games.

Bru are you kidding about saying that FPS like Halo 3 being just HD upgrades? Much better AI this gen, much bigger worlds, on top of much better graphics. Last gen NGII was the best looking game period, this gen it is a no where close. That is disappointing.

[jp]

OK, if we're talking about Western RPGs, I can agree with you, actually.

I think an online Elder Scrolls, if done correctly, could be an amazing thing. It would be hard to pull off, but... I would love it.


If we're talking about JRPGs, then I disagree completely. At no point in my entire life have I ever longed for someone to pick up the 2P controller and join in on my game of Final Fantasy or Phantasy Star or even Lost Odyssey. ESECIALLY not LO, since I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE when people talk during cutscenes, and what do people like to do during co-op?

Talk.

The only instances where I might REMOTELY agree with you would be in cases like Infinite Undiscovery, Tales of Vesperia, or Star Ocean, where the combat isn't turn based at all. But even then (and I HAVE experienced co-op in a Tales game), it isn't as fun as you would think. You basically watch one person walk around and "get to play" whenever a fight comes about. It was only sorta fun when I did it because I was in a room with other people. Online, I don't even want to think about the misery that would ensue.

[Hunter]

I have often thought an online RPG would be an awesome idea. Something like say, Phantasy Star IV, but with each member of your party played by real people. Real time or turn based would work. The problem is, the only way I can see it working is session based, like D&D where everyone needs to be together to move the story forward, and no one would want to play that. It's not very practical. However, once you start taking the everyone plays with everyone approach, then you've got an MMO.

I suppose online co-op in an RPG is the middle ground, but it doesn't really allow for the story to revolve around some static party you've created. That is what I want.

Either way, RPG's>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>FPS any day in my book.

And no, Third Person Shooters ARE NOT FPS'.

[Bruhaha69]

post testing. Can't post my whole message for some reason.

Halo 3 is pretty much a graphical upgrade to Halo 2, yes. It's also a much better designed game, but still, the AI isn't SO much of an improvement where I would consider it a vastly superior game...The game is essentially the same Halo we've known all along. It's not even very graphically impressive. I mean, it looks nice enough, but I wouldn't call it amazing.

Did you mean Ninja Gaiden was last gen's best looking game? For the old Xbox is what you're talking about, right? I figured you just put II by mistake. So assuming that's what you meant, I thought Splinter Cell Chaos Theory was far and away the best looking console game last gen. NG was definitely one of the top 5, though.

I've said this before, but even graphically, the leap from Xbox-PS2 to 360-PS3 was nowhere near the leap we got from Saturn-PS to DC-Xbox-PS2. This gen has taken us to high rez and some larger worlds, but honestly, we had some pretty large worlds last gen, too. The GTA's, Spider-man 2, Hulk UD, Morrowind (bigger than Oblivion and Fallout), etc, etc. The gaming landscape isn't a whole lot different this gen, it's just shinier.

I do realize AI has been improving, but I don't see this gen improving it at any higher a rate than previous ones. It's been a pretty steady line from the FPS' I've played.

Hey Hunter: Can we not post forward slashes in our messages? I just took those out and suddenly my post worked

[Hunter]

Test / Test/Test

[YankeeH8er]

See the big thing with Halo 3 is that it is better graphics and AI in muuuuch bigger levels. Halo 3 almost feels like a sandbox game when you see you big some of the levels are. I bet you could fit almost all of Halo CEinside of Tsavo Highway. Plus when you add in 4 plyer co-op, with a compltely new to the genre co-op scoring system, and gameplay altering skulls, I thought that Halo 3 felt like a huge leap, of course you are still MC shooting aliens, so no it does not feel like a totally different game.

[Hunter]

I think the biggest thing Halo did for console games was theater. That needs to become a mandatory feature in EVERY single game put out. You have no idea how many times I wish I could have a visual record of game sessions. Especially with the ability to review, edit, and screenshot it from any angle. MS should make this mandatory next-gen, like custom soundtracks. Although, the ability to convert and upload the videos to a PC would make a great thing even better.

[YankeeH8er]

True that. Remember back around 360 launch and one of the features that Jay was hyping was that they were going to have in game challanges brodcast live so that people could watch them and there would be prizes and such, I hope that actually happens next gen.

[Hunter]

Don't remember that. Do you mean like that 1 Vs. 100 type crap they are doing now? Or where you could watch other peoples multiplayer games?

[YankeeH8er]

Watch other people. It was in the first PGR on 360, but then I never heard about it again.

[Hunter]

Yeah, that would be pretty cool, to peak in on friends games. I'd love to see that next-gen. As well as Halo 3 style theater, with the ability to upload video.

The other thing I'd love to see is Server-side saving for Gold members. That would definitely justify the fee IMO, since people seem to complain about it more and more. Never have to worry about losing a save game again.

They also have to make sure that you can transfer 360 Saves and Content to whatever the next system is. Meaning TV shows, XBLA Titles and DLC.

The biggest thing though, is they need to make the 360 able to transfer your purchased content to other media such as PC's, flash drives, WM phones and PMP's.

I'd love to see them work on better control methods, but I don't see that happening, unless they do motion control, which would suck ass.

[KANG the Crybaby]

You can backup an image of the PS3 hard drive to any media, so you will always have your purchased content. Can you do that on the 360?

[Hunter]

I would rather have server-side storage, which can then be accessible from anywhere for game saves and licenses. On top of which they'd be able to provide backup solutions. I doubt they will do it, but it would be awesome.

That's great you can do that on PS3 though.

[KANG the Crybaby]

I wish they would do that too, but someone would crack all the games and you'd be able to download them online and easily play them on the 360. I wouldn't have a problem with this but it's why they won't ever do it.

[Bruhaha69]

fuck/my/ass
____________
[post updated]
weird, man. Earlier today, that was stopping me up. Not getting my ass fucked, but the slashes

[Hunter]

I wish they would do that too, but someone would crack all the games and you'd be able to download them online and easily play them on the 360. I wouldn't have a problem with this but it's why they won't ever do it.

Well, what interests me most ar game saves tbh. Imagine going to your friends house, signing into you profile on his 360, and continuing your game where you left off. Then, come back home and continuing on your system where you left off at his house.

[Advocate]

Think about it. Metal Gear Solid 4, Fallout 3, Gears 2, Halo 3, Killzone 2. These are hands down the best looking games of this generation, they have the best budget of any game this generation, and are all considered GOTY material. FPS style games is hands down the premier gaming genre right now.
Soo ... Braid was ugly? Had a weak budget, but was more fun to play.

NHL '09 was fugly and wasn't one of the best games to have features meaning it had leagues, career, set up your own team with friends to play with. Not only that, but if you had a 16 friends online in your "clan" and the game only allowed 6(since thats the amount of players on ice for one team), the rest would be put on your AHL team.

SF HD Remix had horrible multiplayer with LAG ... oh wait.

What about Skate and Skate 2?

Command and Conquer 3 on the PC.

The Grid?

Lost Odyssey was not a fucking ugly game.

Kang, seriously when did you first start playing games? Back in the PS1 era?

If so that explains .... A SHIT TON.
____________
[post updated]
Not everything is based on graphics. It helps, but if you have a game with awesome gameplay ... then who cares?

Also: Geo Wars 2, Hotel Dusk for the DS, Cooking Mama, SDV Raw 2k8, and Soul Calibur 4.
____________
[post updated]
And to Bru ... the leap from PS1-PS2/XBox was big, but I agree the others were better ... graphically.

This gen was not about graphics, even though Sony wants you to think that. It was about more space to create worlds, improving the internet structure and community, and upping the aspect ratio for the HD/Digital upgrade law.

That's it.
____________
[post updated]
Oh and what Halo 3 did was open the door to developers in creating the Theater aspect and the level design ability. They were able to fit it all on one disk. Funny thing is that most of the other stuff is actually on Bungies servers. The disk is the access key. Hence why Bungie asked everyone NOT to upload it on the HDD.

[KANG the Crybaby]

Soo ... Braid was ugly? Had a weak budget, but was more fun to play.

NHL '09 was fugly and wasn't one of the best games to have features meaning it had leagues, career, set up your own team with friends to play with. Not only that, but if you had a 16 friends online in your "clan" and the game only allowed 6(since thats the amount of players on ice for one team), the rest would be put on your AHL team.

SF HD Remix had horrible multiplayer with LAG ... oh wait.

What about Skate and Skate 2?

Command and Conquer 3 on the PC.

The Grid?

Lost Odyssey was not a fucking ugly game.

Kang, seriously when did you first start playing games? Back in the PS1 era?

If so that explains .... A SHIT TON.
____________
[post updated]
Not everything is based on graphics. It helps, but if you have a game with awesome gameplay ... then who cares?

Also: Geo Wars 2, Hotel Dusk for the DS, Cooking Mama, SDV Raw 2k8, and Soul Calibur 4.
____________
[post updated]
And to Bru ... the leap from PS1-PS2/XBox was big, but I agree the others were better ... graphically.

This gen was not about graphics, even though Sony wants you to think that. It was about more space to create worlds, improving the internet structure and community, and upping the aspect ratio for the HD/Digital upgrade law.

That's it.
____________
[post updated]
Oh and what Halo 3 did was open the door to developers in creating the Theater aspect and the level design ability. They were able to fit it all on one disk. Funny thing is that most of the other stuff is actually on Bungies servers. The disk is the access key. Hence why Bungie asked everyone NOT to upload it on the HDD.

SFHD Remix does have hit or miss lag, what game are you playing? And you can't seriously be mentioning that in the same breath as Halo 3 and Killzone 2. SSF2HD is a dreamcast port of Super Turbo with redone graphics, which aren't that great looking BTW. I don't see how that is GOTY material or changing the industry.

I haven't played a skate game since the PS1, and no my first system was a NES in 1985.

I don't know anything about the other games you listed, so there is probably a reason for that.

[Luminous]

[post updated]
Oh and what Halo 3 did was open the door to developers in creating the Theater aspect and the level design ability. They were able to fit it all on one disk. Funny thing is that most of the other stuff is actually on Bungies servers. The disk is the access key. Hence why Bungie asked everyone NOT to upload it on the HDD.

Actually Bungie recommends that you don't install it on the HDD as it will just slow down the loading process for the user. The game was designed to read from the disc and it will still do that even if it is installed on the HDD. I know I read that on Bungie.net.

[KANG the Crybaby]

Actually Bungie recommends that you don't install it on the HDD as it will just slow down the loading process for the user. The game was designed to read from the disc and it will still do that even if it is installed on the HDD. I know I read that on Bungie.net.

Yeah, just a coincidence that happened when MSFT decided to enable the HDD loading feature. There is zero benefit to doing it for Halo 3.

[Frogacuda]

I don't know anything about the other games you listed
Not really something to be proud of. I think there's a lot of excellent diversity in the industry now that you seem to be missing out on.

[Luminous]

Not really something to be proud of. I think there's a lot of excellent diversity in the industry now that you seem to be missing out on.

While I would agree with that for the most part, I am not losing sleep over not playing Wrestling games, Cooking Mama, or Geo Wars (tried it, not a fan). Also let's remember not everyone has a boatload of time to play games so that is also a factor. I am actually focusing on playing through the story modes of my games as I really can't play much online nowadays. It is a blessing in disguise as it will allow me to complete some games.

Variety is always good. There is no denying that at all.

[KANG the Crybaby]

Not really something to be proud of. I think there's a lot of excellent diversity in the industry now that you seem to be missing out on.

Hardly, life is too short. Do you often see movies from genres you care nothing about? I've been gaming near 25 years, I know what I like and what I don't at this point.

[Frogacuda]

Hardly, life is too short. Do you often see movies from genres you care nothing about? I've been gaming near 25 years, I know what I like and what I don't at this point.
Could you even tell me what genre those games are? You said you'd never heard of them.

And yes, I watch movies (and play games) from all genres. It doesn't mean I don't have preferences or that I don't consume more of one genre than another, but I'm not so closed minded as to dismiss anything just because of its genre.

I also have to say that my favorite category of movie/game are the ones that don't have genres. Following strict convention is not a merit.

[KANG the Crybaby]

Could you even tell me what genre those games are?

Games no one plays? If people played them I'd think I would have heard of them.

[Frogacuda]

Games no one plays? If people played them I'd think I would have heard of them.
Apparently not. None of them were obscure.

There are a lot of really excellent games that are obscure, too, so there's some flawed logic there as well.

[KANG the Crybaby]

Oh I know there are good games, great games, most people don't play. But we are talking about games that push the industry, games no one's heard of don't do that.

[Frogacuda]

Oh I know there are good games, great games, most people don't play. But we are talking about games that push the industry, games no one's heard of don't do that.
It depends on how you define games "no one's heard of." If we limit it strictly to games you haven't heard of, then you're a crazy person.

I posted a screenshot of Elite on the "Guess the game" thread a while back and no one got it. But Elite is one of the most influential games of all time. It popularized an entire genre, and rewrote the book on game design, and without it, I bet we wouldn't have Grand Theft Auto today. Now, that game sold millions of copies on a dozen different platforms, it's far from obscure. And yet no one on this board had heard of it. It's arrogant to think you're the barometer for if a game is getting played.

But really, only one person has to play a game and love it for it to be influential, if that one person ends up making another game. Case in point: Hover Attack, a beyond-obscure game for the Sharp X1 published in print in a programming magazine (as a sort of "enter the code yourself" thing), was a highly innovative game, and years later ended up being the primary source of inspiration for Bangai-O. Without it, there would be no Bangai-O. That's influence.

[Advocate]

Liking and not liking is fine, But saying that FPS influences the industry is down right insane. Braid is an unreal game.

Hey you know what's funny about the lag thing in SSF2:HD? Yeah its not lag ... its people using the standby button. GGPO has the best netcode for online matches ... that's why Capcom used it and paid a pretty penny for it. So, no there's no lag. And what system did you play it on(curious actually)?

And about the movie thing. Yeah I watch what you'd describe as obscure movies. I watch the summer blockbusters and I watch the indy's. Have you ever seen Koyaanisqatsi? I didn't till a few months ago. It came out in the early 80's, yet its one influential movie. They used the timelapse cinematography for the GTA4 trailer. They used it in Scrubs as well.

And while we're comparing e-penises ... I've played since 1980. Atari 2600, 5200, 7200, TI 99/4, Turbografx 16, Sega Master system, Sega Genesis, PS1, PS2, DC, Saturn, Gameboy, XBox, 360, GB Colour, GB Advance, DS Lite, and the Neo Geo CD.

[NeoZeedeater]

Think about it. Metal Gear Solid 4, Fallout 3, Gears 2, Halo 3, Killzone 2. These are hands down the best looking games of this generation
I don't know, art direction is more important to me than graphic detail. Those are great looking games but there are many lower tech games that look amazing, too (A Vampyre Story, Super Mario Galaxy, Order of Ecclesia, etc.).

And like Frog was saying, there are many cases of obscure games that do push game design. Occasionally they retro-actively praised more than when they first came out (Herzog Zwei, for example) but often they don't.

[Advocate]

This argument is amazing illogical.

I'm with Frog and Neo on this and probably every Hardcore gamer on the planet.

[Luminous]

This argument is amazing illogical.

I'm with Frog and Neo on this and probably every Hardcore gamer on the planet.


I am not going to dispute your position, but you like the Wii so there goes the hardcore gamer point of view. ;)


Like I said the more variety the better. At the same time if you don't like a genre what will make you start really playing through those types of games? I admit the main reason I am getting Halo Wars is because it is Halo. I have never been a fan of RTS games, probably because I don't play PC games. Still I played the demo, liked it and yes Halo is there so that is really pushing me towards it.

I am sure I am "missing out" on a bunch of games, but I don't have time nor do I honestly care. If I had all the time in the world to play I probably would play more genres that I normally don't. I will say the shmups, puzzle games, turn based RPG's, fighting games, the entire Wii lineup (don't own nor will I ever own one) are things I am not going to be playing much of. I don't like shmups at all, just not for me, same goes for puzzle games. So am I to be criticized for my preferences? I hope not. I have played games in just about every genre, or type, or whatever.

Frog I played the Mirror's Edge demo and I will get that game eventually. Even if I bought it now I am not sure when I will get to play, but it is on my radar. Same goes for Dead Space.

[jp]

Josh fucking hates JRPGs but he loves the shit out of Lost Odyssey (last I heard anyways, I haven't gotten any LO updates lately).


I used to LOVE FPSs but they've made so goddamn many that the appeal is completely lost on me and they've all started blending together.

Though I do still have a soft spot for Halo. Halo is a rather magical one. And Half-Life keeps it real, but I wasn't such a fan of Left 4 Dead.

[Luminous]

Josh fucking hates JRPGs but he loves the shit out of Lost Odyssey (last I heard anyways, I haven't gotten any LO updates lately).


I used to LOVE FPSs but they've made so goddamn many that the appeal is completely lost on me and they've all started blending together.

Though I do still have a soft spot for Halo. Halo is a rather magical one. And Half-Life keeps it real, but I wasn't such a fan of Left 4 Dead.


I do admit I am not a huge fan of a lot of JRPG's but LO has at the very least from what I have seen much better characters. Not the whiny, spiky haired, girlish hero. Blech.......I mean even classic JRPG's like Chrono Trigger. Look at the hero's party (well not so much in game, more with game art), they look like they could be beaten by a one armed marine with only a bayonnet.

I still love my FPS games but I see how you are burnt out. Heck I almost am.


You can't hate the Halo it makes you love it.....my...precious.......

[jp]

Fun story:
When I was younger (early-mid teens) I used to wish and wish and wish and wish that someone would make a World War II FPS. I was like, "OMG! A WWII FPS would be fucking awesome!" I even snatched up Hidden & Dangerous for Dreamcast because it was as close as I could get.


Yeah... yeah I really regret that wish now...

[Luminous]

Fun story:
When I was younger (early-mid teens) I used to wish and wish and wish and wish that someone would make a World War II FPS. I was like, "OMG! A WWII FPS would be fucking awesome!" I even snatched up Hidden & Dangerous for Dreamcast because it was as close as I could get.


Yeah... yeah I really regret that wish now...


So we can blame the rash of WWII FPS's on you?!?!?!? LOL.......


I know you were anti-Sony, but the Medal of Honor series started on the PS1 I believe.

[NeoZeedeater]

At the same time if you don't like a genre what will make you start really playing through those types of games?
I find it's games that borderline on other genres. I'm generally not into RTS games but I loved Battlezone '98 and the Pikmin games. Those usually get labeled at RTS games but mix in other genre elements that make them different enough that they can appeal to those not into Warcraft or Command & Conquer. Similarily I have come across a lot of people who don't generally like FPSes but are big fans of System Shock or Metroid Prime.

[Frogacuda]

Josh fucking hates JRPGs but he loves the shit out of Lost Odyssey (last I heard anyways, I haven't gotten any LO updates lately).
There are always exceptions. That's kind of the point I was trying to make. There are genres I'm generally not interested in either (RTS games, for example) but once in a while I make an exception.


I used to LOVE FPSs but they've made so goddamn many that the appeal is completely lost on me and they've all started blending together.
If you were a PC gamer, you'd have already gone through this in 1999 when everyone wanted to have the next Quake/Unreal. And pulled out of it around 2004.

On the contrary I think right now, while the FPS market is certainly being saturated, it's diversifying quite a bit. A game like Bioshock is a totally different kind of experience than Halo, which in turn is nothing Crysis, which is nothing like STALKER.

Meanwhile, you have a bunch of games that are toeing the outer edge of what can be called a FPS and doing some interesting things with it. Games like Mirror's Edge, Portal, Condemned, Dark Messiah... Games that take the foundations of FPS and use it to do something genuinely new. I really can't think of a time when first person gaming was so diverse.

I think one of the problems is multiplayer, though. It seems like every single-player FPS has to have some generic multiplayer mode tacked on that plays like every other multiplayer FPS on the planet. Like all the design and innovation of a quality SP game has to be boiled down into a bunch of people running around a small map shooting each other's heads off. I think that requirement helps to emphasize convention and sameness rather than diversity.

If I want a MP FPS, I tend to gravitate toward games that focus exclusively on it and do it exceptionally well or differently. Unreal Tournament 3, Quake Wars, Team Fortress, etc. I really don't need to play deathmatch in FEAR2, I have a million games that do that already.

[NeoZeedeater]

I really can't think of a time when first person gaming was so diverse.
Hell, I can't think of a time when gaming in general was so diverse. We have those awesome genre blurring first-person games mentioned, a good amount of retro-inspired 2d games, and probably the most balanced co-existence of linear and open-ended games ever.

[Luminous]

There are always exceptions. That's kind of the point I was trying to make. There are genres I'm generally not interested in either (RTS games, for example) but once in a while I make an exception.


If you were a PC gamer, you'd have already gone through this in 1999 when everyone wanted to have the next Quake/Unreal. And pulled out of it around 2004.

On the contrary I think right now, while the FPS market is certainly being saturated, it's diversifying quite a bit. A game like Bioshock is a totally different kind of experience than Halo, which in turn is nothing Crysis, which is nothing like STALKER.

Meanwhile, you have a bunch of games that are toeing the outer edge of what can be called a FPS and doing some interesting things with it. Games like Mirror's Edge, Portal, Condemned, Dark Messiah... Games that take the foundations of FPS and use it to do something genuinely new. I really can't think of a time when first person gaming was so diverse.

I think one of the problems is multiplayer, though. It seems like every single-player FPS has to have some generic multiplayer mode tacked on that plays like every other multiplayer FPS on the planet. Like all the design and innovation of a quality SP game has to be boiled down into a bunch of people running around a small map shooting each other's heads off. I think that requirement helps to emphasize convention and sameness rather than diversity.

If I want a MP FPS, I tend to gravitate toward games that focus exclusively on it and do it exceptionally well or differently. Unreal Tournament 3, Quake Wars, Team Fortress, etc. I really don't need to play deathmatch in FEAR2, I have a million games that do that already.

The key to FPS multiplayer for me is am I having fun while just running around shooting people's heads off? I usually don't like vs. multiplayer in FPS games, but Halo changed all that for me. I have no real idea why, but I usually (depending on teamates) have a great time playing Halo MP. I guess I just really like the style of play. I have played almost ZERO vs. MP in games like GRAW, RSV, CoD4 and even the older Ghost Recon and RS games on the Xbox. In those games it was near 100% co-op, except CoD4, which has none.

The pace of games like Quake and Unreal are usually too fast for my taste. Not that I can't play them, but it seems like everything is over and done before you can even get going. To be fair I haven't played the most recent 360 versions (UT3 and Quake 4). I am sad that I did not get into Team Fortress 2 on the Orange Box. Once again too many games, not enough time. Now hardly anyone plays TF2 online from what I understand.

I do own Bioshock, Condemned and Portal and am I hoping to get Mirror's Edge eventually.

Of course for me it is all console gaming so......


I find it's games that borderline on other genres. I'm generally not into RTS games but I loved Battlezone '98 and the Pikmin games. Those usually get labeled at RTS games but mix in other genre elements that make them different enough that they can appeal to those not into Warcraft or Command & Conquer. Similarily I have come across a lot of people who don't generally like FPSes but are big fans of System Shock or Metroid Prime.

I am willing to try different games in different genres, but my biggest obstacle is always time. Money sometimes, but mostly time to play games. That really gets into the way of your epic RPG's. I am happy that I was able to put so much time into Oblivion as I was. If Oblivion came out now I am sure I would just be doing the main quest or playing that and absolutely nothing else.

[Frogacuda]

The key to FPS multiplayer for me is am I having fun while just running around shooting people's heads off? I usually don't like vs. multiplayer in FPS games, but Halo changed all that for me. I have no real idea why, but I usually (depending on teamates) have a great time playing Halo MP. I guess I just really like the style of play.
I'm not arguing whether MP is better or not. I have my preference, but that wasn't what I was getting at.

What bugs me is that games that are primarily single player all have to have some lame, loveless, generic Vs. Multiplayer mode tacked on and that in some cases this can even eclipse the SP game and make the product seem more generic than it is.

Occasionally you do get games that balance SP and MP very well. Halo, CoD4, etc. But I just don't get why it's a requirement for EVERY game that happens to use a first-person camera. There were people that flipped out because Bioshock didn't have MP, like that would even make sense. I think it confuses the issue. It's like if every platformer had to have some half-assed Smash Bros mode in it.
____________
[post updated]

I find it's games that borderline on other genres. I'm generally not into RTS games but I loved Battlezone '98 and the Pikmin games. Those usually get labeled at RTS games but mix in other genre elements that make them different enough that they can appeal to those not into Warcraft or Command & Conquer. Similarily I have come across a lot of people who don't generally like FPSes but are big fans of System Shock or Metroid Prime.

God, I need to play Battlezone 98 again. I don't think I've played it since 98 (tried at one point, but couldn't get it to run), but I loved the hell out of it.

[Luminous]

I'm not arguing whether MP is better or not. I have my preference, but that wasn't what I was getting at.

What bugs me is that games that are primarily single player all have to have some lame, loveless, generic Vs. Multiplayer mode tacked on and that in some cases this can even eclipse the SP game and make the product seem more generic than it is.

Occasionally you do get games that balance SP and MP very well. Halo, CoD4, etc. But I just don't get why it's a requirement for EVERY game that happens to use a first-person camera. There were people that flipped out because Bioshock didn't have MP, like that would even make sense. I think it confuses the issue. It's like if every platformer had to have some half-assed Smash Bros mode in it.


Neither was I at all. I was just pointing out that I really am not a huge fan of versus MP and prefer the co-op in most cases. I agree that not all FPS games need a MP component, but a lot lend themselves to it. Military shooters usually work real well. Bioshock, Dead Space, Mirror's Edge not at all. I didn't play all that many FPS games prior to the 360. I did play Doom, Duke Nuke'em and Quake 2, but Halo is what started me loving the genre. It was the single player that did it. I played very little Halo:CE multi, a few matches over XBconnect and that's it. It just so happens the gameplay translates into amazing MP. Bungie did a great job with it's implementation and with no sacrifice to the campaign. Infinity Ward did the same with CoD4 (although I am not a fan of it's MP).

I still think a great multi-player component can only add to a game. Of course tacked on, generic MP just takes away and we do have a rash of that. A great example of crappy tacked on MP is Star Wars Republic Commando. I really liked the campaign and tried out the MP once....it was garbage. The only MP that game needed was 4 player co-op. It practically screamed for it. I do own a few FPS games that I just plan on going through the campaign as I am a fan of the genre.

[NeoZeedeater]

I am willing to try different games in different genres, but my biggest obstacle is always time. Money sometimes, but mostly time to play games. That really gets into the way of your epic RPG's. I am happy that I was able to put so much time into Oblivion as I was. If Oblivion came out now I am sure I would just be doing the main quest or playing that and absolutely nothing else.
Lack of time sucks although I don't play too many long RPGs anymore. And yeah, like Oblivion, many of the best modern RPGs (Fallout 3, Vampire TMB, Mass Effect, etc.) can be fairly short if you don't try and do everything in the game.

That said, I should get back to Persona 4. That one will take a long time.


But I just don't get why it's a requirement for EVERY game that happens to use a first-person camera.
This always annoyed the shit out of me although I think things have improved a bit. Bioshock lacked multiplayer and DX3 likely will, too.

[Frogacuda]

I still think a great multi-player component can only add to a game.
This is a bit of a fallacy. MP always takes away development time from the Single-Player component, so if they're not going to do something special with it, I don't think they should bother. It isn't really "free", there's always a trade-off.

Sometimes it's downright bizarre. Like Dark Messiah... the multiplayer component was actually a completely separate game (with a seperate install and everything) made by a different developer in a different country. Why? Because it's a first-person game, and therefore needs MP. Even though it's an RPG and nothing about it makes sense in MP, they had to hire another company to make a totally different MP game to throw in the box.

Co-op is kind of something different, because it isn't a distinct entity from the SP. Even then, I think co-op is nonsense for some games (especially horror-themed games, or open exploration-oriented games like STALKER or Fallout), but if it's a military squad themed game, it should have co-op for sure.

[Luminous]

This is a bit of a fallacy. MP always takes away development time from the Single-Player component, so if they're not going to do something special with it, I don't think they should bother. It isn't really "free", there's always a trade-off.

Sometimes it's downright bizarre. Like Dark Messiah... the multiplayer component was actually a completely separate game (with a seperate install and everything) made by a different developer in a different country. Why? Because it's a first-person game, and therefore needs MP. Even though it's an RPG and nothing about it makes sense in MP, they had to hire another company to make a totally different MP game to throw in the box.

Co-op is kind of something different, because it isn't a distinct entity from the SP. Even then, I think co-op is nonsense for some games (especially horror-themed games, or open exploration-oriented games like STALKER or Fallout), but if it's a military squad themed game, it should have co-op for sure.

So if the games' MP is great and so is the campaign where is the problem? It does become a problem when it takes away from the story, and that is sad. GRAW had two developers one for MP and one for SP. That seemed to work pretty well for the most part.

I had no idea Dark Messiah had any MP, that is odd. Condemned 2 also has some MP I am pretty sure, but I would never think to try it.

Left 4 Dead is all about co-op, but that is how they set the story up as well. It makes sense to me. Most zombie movies center around a group of survivors dealing with the chaos. I am hoping and praying that a new Republic Commando game with 4 player co-op will be made, but I am sure it will never see the light of day. :frown:

[Frogacuda]

So if the games' MP is great and so is the campaign where is the problem? There' s no problem with those. The problem comes from games where the MP isn't good, or doesn't offer anything unique from other games, because then it's just a burden on the developers.


Condemned 2 also has some MP I am pretty sure, but I would never think to try it.
Yeah, situations like this. They did that because people actually got upset that the original didn't have MP, even though it really makes no sense because the basis of the combat is on reading enemies that express their animations in ways the player can't. It didn't need MP, but the developers were forced to do it to appease people and that in turn drew resources away from the single player game.

L4D I consider to be a MP game with a SP mode tacked on, not the other way around.

[Advocate]

I am not going to dispute your position, but you like the Wii so there goes the hardcore gamer point of view. ;)
Bite me.

Oh and a game that had a tacked on MP?

Area 51.

and Gears of War 2 ... wait what? kidding.

[Frogacuda]

Blacksite? That game had tacked on everything.

[Advocate]

No not that one.

This one ...

[jp]

I loved the hell out of Slave Zero's tacked on MP back in the Dreamcast days. Good times!

[Hunter]

Yeah, me and my bro played the shit out of Slavezero. I had it for DC and PC and loved that game.

Just wanted to throw this in, and I know jp will likely kill me, but the characters in Lost Odyssey are WAY feminine. I still like the game, but Kaims hair, face, exposed midriff . . .

I don't even need to mention Jensen. He looks more a lady than a ladies man.