IGN's (Frog's) History of the Dreamcast

[Bruhaha69]

http://retro.ign.com/articles/102/1021947p1.html

Great article right before the 10 year anniversary of our good old DC. It got me a little depressed, though. It's hard being a longtime Sega fan, knowing all the great games/consoles that have come out of them, looking back at some of their greatest achievements and then seeing what became of them....not even a major player in the gaming world.

Nice job on the article, Frog

[Frogacuda]

Don't be bummed, just hook up the DC and spin some GDs. That's what I'll be doing.

[mr_chun]

Dang, wish the 9th was coming on a Tuesday or Thursday. I have no time to game on Wednesdays. Otherwise, I'd be booting up Crazy Taxi for sure. Or maybe actually getting around to starting Shenmue...

EDIT: Damn good article, Frog. Will finish it tomorrow.

EDIT: Just kidding, I finished it. Thanks for the enlightenment, as my 10 year old self was extremely ignorant of what was going on at the time. :p

[DarthArcturus]

damn good article Frog....

I like this part: Stolar remains confident to this day, boasting, "If you looked at NFL2K yourself, that game was better than Madden." Many fans and critics agreed.

The madden games from the early 2000s were some of the worst ones...it was only later when they actually started improving the gameplay.

My Wednesdays suck too Mr. Chun...but I will make sure to make time for some DC action :)

[Hunter]

I have 3 DC's right now, although one is broken, and not one of them is hooked up. Maybe I should set it up tomorrow just for some Hydro Thunder.

[Wildcat]

One of my DC's broke. :(

I'll give this a read (and a link) tomorrow, Frog. I'm sure it's as excellent as your stuff usually is. I'm finishing up a piece on Skies right now, actually.

[Frogacuda]

I bit my tongue on (most of) my Skies criticisms in the article. I try to keep these retrospectives from being reviews. Obviously you can't make history completely impartial and this one is a bit drippy and nostalgic, but I don't like when people can't acknowledge a game's legacy in that kind of context.

IGN threw a companion video for this up, btw. It's pretty good though Hilary takes a pretty unnecessary jab at Shenmue.

[Wildcat]

I think it's sort of necessary to put a bit of yourself into things like this. To me, it adds a bit of individualism to it, which gives it more of a unique flavor than something without a bit of an opinion attached.

I hope I'm making sense. X_X

Anyway, I do look forward to reading it. And I'll put up a link. I have more DC celebration left to do tomorrow, and your article will be a nice addition. Skies hater or not. :p

[Frogacuda]

What is everyone going to be playing tomorrow?

My DC hasn't ever really been put away, so I think I'm going to focus on some games I haven't played in a while. I think it's time to give Red Dog a whirl again.

[Bruhaha69]

Not sure yet, but I think Shenmue. Happy Birthday Dreamcast

Red Dog never came out, right? I think Mike Patton was supposed to do the music for that.

[DarthArcturus]

my is still hooked up just needs to be dusted.

I think I'll play NFL 2k to start off because it was the one launch title that got my attention (besides sonic) I have so many games that don't work anymore due to abuse by my brothers (Toy Commander being one I really miss) I'll give it a try maybe it will work

Other games: Shenmue (won't have time to really play much but I'll watch IMO the best intro of a video game ever), Rush 2049 (my favorite racer on dc), and of course sonic.

[Specineff]

Tech Romancer on the HDTV, via VGA. Woot.

[Frogacuda]

Red Dog never came out, right? I think Mike Patton was supposed to do the music for that.
Red Dog came out, but the American release was delayed until after everyone stopped giving a fuck, so no one bought it. It was good, though!

[Wildcat]

Hm. Perhaps I'll restart Skies on the DC. My second disc will fuck up, but the first is fine. Just to enjoy the beginning again. ^_^

[mr_chun]

Definitely getting mine hooked up tonight. Crazy Taxi and Hydro Thunder are on the bill. Maybe even Sonic Adventure.

Frog, I watched that video. And I definitely wtf'd at Hilary.

[DarthArcturus]

w00t, Toy Commander actually worked but Sonic Adventures didn't :( I forgot how hard that came actually is. I also played a full game of nfl 2k and the core gameplay still holds up today. Finally I also popped in Soul Calibur and while the background graphics look dated, the character models have stood the test of time.

[mr_chun]

I don't have Soul Calibur. :(

And I left NFL2K at home. :(

EDIT: But my SA works! :)

[Bruhaha69]

Just started watching the video version. Levi reminds me a little of Dennis Miller. Fuck you Hilary Goldstein for talking about Shenmue like some turd of a game. It was one of the most amazing games to ever be seen at the time, you fat, ugly, talentless bastard. It not only lived up to the hype from wher eI was sitting, it fucking made my head explode with how good it was.

Also, I like how earlier in the vid he says he passed up getting laid to get the DC....I'm sure his hand was just as happy with a DC controller in it. This is the same guy who just gave Beatles Rock Band a 9 out of 10....yeah, I'm sure it's a blast copying what the screen tells you and singing karaoke, but it's no different than any other one of these god damned games. Doesn't deserve a 9 as a video game.

[Frogacuda]

Sorry, Hilary, they can't all be Tao Feng (http://xbox.ign.com/articles/389/389505p1.html).

[DarthArcturus]

Just started watching the video version. Levi reminds me a little of Dennis Miller. Fuck you Hilary Goldstein for talking about Shenmue like some turd of a game. It was one of the most amazing games to ever be seen at the time, you fat, ugly, talentless bastard. It not only lived up to the hype from wher eI was sitting, it fucking made my head explode with how good it was.

Also, I like how earlier in the vid he says he passed up getting laid to get the DC....I'm sure his hand was just as happy with a DC controller in it. This is the same guy who just gave Beatles Rock Band a 9 out of 10....yeah, I'm sure it's a blast copying what the screen tells you and singing karaoke, but it's no different than any other one of these god damned games. Doesn't deserve a 9 as a video game.
I never saw what Hilary looked like until that video. He is ugly and looks like one of those pretentious nerds that you just want to beat the living snot out of.

[Bruhaha69]

Yup, pretty much, Darth. He looks as annoying as he reviews.

Wow, good recall, Frog. I forgot he/IGN rated that game so highly. That game really wasn't very good, either. The gameplay was more frustrating than fun. It did look pretty good, but that was about it.

[DarthArcturus]

anyone know what happened to Anthony Chau (use to be the main editor for ign DC) That guy was actually pretty good. Last I heard he was with sega doing something I think???

[Frogacuda]

That game really wasn't very good, either.
It was fucking horrid, even.

And Darth, I'm not sure, a lot of those guys disappear into PR jobs. Anoop resurfaced recently though on some website, so who knows.

[Wildcat]

Read the article yesterday and enjoyed it, as I expected. Learned quite a bit, too. I liked how you put the spotlight on the developers. Well done, Frog. :)

Never did get the DC going, though. :(

[Bruhaha69]

I dunno, horrid is the extreme opposite of Hilary's glowing review. I mean, you could play it, it looked and sounded alright, but it just wasn't very good or fun. I think the game could have been given a 5.5 - 6.5. It was just ok. Not terrible, but it was far from good and definitely not great.

and yeah, Anthony Chau knew what was up, especially with Shenmue:

http://dreamcast.ign.com/articles/164/164499p1.html

[jp]

Despite the language indicating a noble "We need the Dreamcast to hit the ground running!" from Stolar, I still think he's a fucking moron. No one believed in Sega in the US because of what they had witnessed with the Saturn and its year long drought of games and as you said in the article, third parties in Japan (and wonderful teams like Camelot) were pissed off about how the Saturn was killed off there.

Sega needed someone with enough sense to pull out a balancing act. The route they took only hurt them in the end.


But all in all, still a damn good read. :)

Also, don't kinow how I feel about Stolar's call on EA. On the one hand, NFL2K series crushes Madden. On the other hand, Madden crushes NFL2K in sales and popularity. If EA had been on board for the DC it could have had a much better chance. Also, Stolar's willingness to practically bleed money for the system was probably pretty stupid in the end. Good for the consumer at the time, but if playing it smart back then meant I could have a GOOD Sega today and a Sega console TODAY, I would have much rather had that.

[Frogacuda]

Despite the language indicating a noble "We need the Dreamcast to hit the ground running!" from Stolar, I still think he's a fucking moron. No one believed in Sega in the US because of what they had witnessed with the Saturn and its year long drought of games and as you said in the article, third parties in Japan (and wonderful teams like Camelot) were pissed off about how the Saturn was killed off there.

It's true, but I think in hindsight, it's clear they were fucked either way. Either DC was making up for a massive failure, or they were underprepared and making up for a modest failure.

The company was in the console business for about 20 years, and they were profitable for 1, maybe 2. The axe was going to fall.

[jp]

I still think if they had some brilliant management towards the end of the Saturn and going into the Dreamcast they could have pulled it off. I'll always feel that way though. :shrug:


(Of course, if Sega had EVER had brilliant management in ALL regions, they'd still be relevant today).

[Frogacuda]

Sega's problem was always that the east and west were out of sync. Stolar's decision on Saturn was actually probably good for the American market, but it pissed off Japanese third parties, since the Saturn was still viable there and many had games in development.

They never once were able to do well in Japan and NA at the same time.

[jp]

Sega's problem was always that the east and west were out of sync. Stolar's decision on Saturn was actually probably good for the American market, but it pissed off Japanese third parties, since the Saturn was still viable there and many had games in development.

They never once were able to do well in Japan and NA at the same time.

Right. Thats why I think if they had someone smart enough to pull a balancing act (i.e. not Stolar) it might could have worked. The Saturn was the first time Sega was successful in Japan, if they could have ridden that it would have helped tremendously.

Out of curiosity, it was mainly Square that got Sony anywhere in Japan, so why was Square always so seemingly "anti-Sega"? They could've have gotten their disc format with Sega along time ago even with the Sega CD.

[Frogacuda]

I think Square was just a one-platform kind of company for many years. They switched to Sony because Nintendo kind of fucked them with their cart-only format, but I think they had wanted to go N64 up to that point. As for why they want PlayStation instead of Saturn? Well Sony probably made them a better offer.

Keep in mind that no one knew how big FF7 was going to be. No one expected the 32-bit gen to turn on Square. Stolar even went as far as to say he didn't want RPGs on the PlayStation when he was over there. So he might have fucked that up for Sega for all I know.

[jp]

Yeah, you're right there (about no one knowing FF would blow up). I was a Square fan since King's Knight and I was amazed when the douchebag casual gamers in 8th grade started yapping about FFVII (which me and the one other guy who knew what FF was prior to then both thought FFVII was absolute trash, especially compared to FFIV or FFVI).